tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post374182761460253822..comments2023-11-03T11:32:01.540+00:00Comments on Thought Experiments : The Blog: In Two MindsBryan Appleyardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08276787058430388582noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-42563151271632779622009-03-18T15:36:00.000+00:002009-03-18T15:36:00.000+00:00I have half a mind to agree with one of Brit's com...I have half a mind to agree with one of Brit's comments - "Man is only part of nature." <BR/><BR/>It's his next statement that causes most of the mischief and I think he knows it too.<BR/><BR/>It's all so very wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-80645698967401201132009-03-18T10:50:00.000+00:002009-03-18T10:50:00.000+00:00And we're all yearing to return to that lost Eden/...And we're all yearing to return to that lost Eden/Utopia. Perhaps Scruton and Gray aren't so far apart, just looking at things from opposite ends of the telescope.<BR/>PS - Michael Frayn in 'The Human Touch' has some rewarding things to say about human centrality in the observable universe.<BR/>Nero.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-78431170593766196232009-03-16T11:29:00.000+00:002009-03-16T11:29:00.000+00:00Brit: I love it! "Everyone is always wrong about e...Brit: I love it! "Everyone is always wrong about everything is a credo I'd be willing to claim as my own! But yeah, having grown up around a bunch of big American families, some with money, some with religion, some with neither, I can say with confidence that no matter what the right-wingers say, no American family could handle one AFTERNOON of this Italian togetherness I'm seeing without some Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15106406079979932208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-83000256338110081842009-03-16T11:12:00.000+00:002009-03-16T11:12:00.000+00:00The usual line I hear from (right-leaning) America...The usual line I hear from (right-leaning) Americans, Johnny, is that secular Old Europe is doomed because it has given up on the family and procreating and the replacement rate, while the future belongs to religious America because it's all about the kids.<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying they're right and you're wrong. Probably they're wrong and you're wrong as well. But since everybody is always wrong Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-50235109246138158012009-03-16T11:03:00.000+00:002009-03-16T11:03:00.000+00:00Recusant: Hahaha, I guess it IS slightly surreal! ...Recusant: Hahaha, I guess it IS slightly surreal! It's true, the Italian families I'm seeing everywhere ARE little; Mom, Dad and a baby, Mom, Dad and a baby. But there's a huge REVERENCE for the act of procreating here. The low birthrate seems like a pragmatic compromise with economic realities, as though everyone would have eight children if they could. So much of the Italian worldview, from Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15106406079979932208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-66947358248603749492009-03-16T10:00:00.000+00:002009-03-16T10:00:00.000+00:00JohnnyIt's slightly surreal that you write your co...Johnny<BR/><BR/>It's slightly surreal that you write your comment from the one place - Italy - where "celebrating the birth of more and more humans in geometric proliferation!", is not taking place. With a birth rate of 1.2 per female, Italians are on the road to extinction, if anything.<BR/><BR/>Bryan, doesn't John Gray have a bit too much of the old Malthusian pessimism to him? Or is it just Recusanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11446741817585462393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-56623360977471556872009-03-16T09:48:00.000+00:002009-03-16T09:48:00.000+00:00Man is only part of nature; man is special. Nature...Man is only part of nature; man is special. Nature is beautiful, but only to man. Nature is also immensely horrible and repulsive. I'm finding it harder and harder to watch lions bringing down juvenile gazelles and whatnot. Is this because I'm getting older and more sentimental?<BR/><BR/>And what if you find man-made structures (Notre Dame; Sydney Opera House; a Michael Vaughan front-foot cover Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-89558314353481740972009-03-16T08:53:00.000+00:002009-03-16T08:53:00.000+00:00I'm an American traveling through Rome, and I've b...I'm an American traveling through Rome, and I've been struck by the extent to which American stereotypes of family being the most important thing in life for Italians have proven true. I mention this because I agree with you, Brian, that ultimately the argument that we humans are not the point of nature will be proven when we exhaust the carrying capacity of at least our own environmental niche Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15106406079979932208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-34091756501534991022009-03-16T08:41:00.000+00:002009-03-16T08:41:00.000+00:00Nice point, Mark. I've often found more in common ...Nice point, Mark. I've often found more in common in their work than they do themselves. John now accepts the power of the concept of original sin, more than he once did I think.Bryan Appleyardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08276787058430388582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-52282607410011274332009-03-16T08:34:00.000+00:002009-03-16T08:34:00.000+00:00At the risk of sounding like I believe more than I...At the risk of sounding like I believe more than I do, I wonder whether two further and related Christian concepts might bridge the gap, namely sin and redemption. John G's work could be said to highlight the profound sins of humanity. Roger S's work the possibility of redemption. The question would then be whether believing in the former, you can in the latter?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com