tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post5411118989789801216..comments2023-11-03T11:32:01.540+00:00Comments on Thought Experiments : The Blog: Jade and Bourgeois CorruptionBryan Appleyardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08276787058430388582noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-78103542148349815292009-04-09T23:30:00.000+00:002009-04-09T23:30:00.000+00:00Presumably, there is within us a deep extra-ration...Presumably, there is within us a deep extra-rational (as opposed to irrational, which implies stupid) desire to engage in acts of collective religious-like worship. Such desires used to be satisfied by the Gods, and then by God (and his saints) but now there's nothing out there except celebrities. The quality of what is worshipped is not important (after all, Hitler was worshipped, as is Kim Il Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03467412541030183747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-24465309740342833342009-04-09T11:55:00.000+00:002009-04-09T11:55:00.000+00:00Mark, there's stuff I know I don't know about it, ...Mark, there's stuff I know I don't know about it, including how much influence the media money men have in shaping the whole thing. When Piers Morgan tried to rebel, banning Big Brother from the front page of the Mirror, he almost sunk it though. That suggests the tabloids are following something profound in the culture, as is their wont. There's much I don't get. But I appreciate your thoughts aRichard Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10005416556432927671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-25255042173800698202009-04-08T22:52:00.000+00:002009-04-08T22:52:00.000+00:00Yes Richard, but my worry is there might be an ele...Yes Richard, but my worry is there might be an element of coercion here. Folks behave in the way they do and say certain things because they feel it is expected of them, on an occasion like that. I'm not saying they do it deliberately or are necessarily even aware of a gap between sentiment and reality, but the social pressure is there. We are all prone to it, imho. It is easy to go with the flowMarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06074816573442173758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-29399749246594096682009-04-08T19:25:00.000+00:002009-04-08T19:25:00.000+00:00I agree with Brit that this is something one feels...I agree with Brit that this is something one feels, one way or the other. I feel Bryan has nailed something immensely important lurking beyond his Sunday article. Of course it's not everything that might legitimately be said.<BR/><BR/>A simple way of framing it is that the talk that he (and then Michael, very effectively) describe from the 'chattering middle classes', that we've all heard and Richard Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10005416556432927671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-62968868995867886882009-04-08T14:25:00.000+00:002009-04-08T14:25:00.000+00:00Too easy, Bryan. The newspaper article was perfect...Too easy, Bryan. The newspaper article was perfect but this post doesn't feel right.<BR/><BR/>It's now useless to try to fit everything into a tripartite class division. We're in the quantum flux remember.<BR/><BR/>Also, if there is a simple middle class of chatterers, which there isn't, then they're my people and I'm getting tired of other chatterers kicking them with their even chattier kicky Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-84625672096777522662009-04-08T02:57:00.000+00:002009-04-08T02:57:00.000+00:00Bryan is a celebrity too. More power to ya, Mr. A....Bryan is a celebrity too. More power to ya, Mr. A.Susan B.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-57053727215073905812009-04-07T19:48:00.000+00:002009-04-07T19:48:00.000+00:00Much of what Bryan says here is true, particularly...Much of what Bryan says here is true, particularly the identification of the middle-class tendency to deliver "moral homilies to their social inferiors."<BR/><BR/>However, the axis of polarisation created by Jade (and her manipulators), was perpendicular to the class hierarchy. As Michael Parkinson's comments today, and the previous comments of Noel Gallagher illustrate, working-class people wereGordon McCabehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09151162643523937086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-35340797759149918052009-04-07T18:56:00.000+00:002009-04-07T18:56:00.000+00:00I suppose one could argue that celebrity culture i...I suppose one could argue that celebrity culture is a natural product of the Anglo-Saxon capitalism we've been hearing so much about lately. Successful businessmen become celebrities and celebrities become megabucks businessmen. And in either case, the average joe has about as much chance of joining them as he has of winning the lottery. What matters is maintaining the illusion that this upward Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06074816573442173758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-26443650539245863882009-04-07T17:56:00.000+00:002009-04-07T17:56:00.000+00:00Richard, my glass, what I'm looking through, is ha...Richard, my glass, what I'm looking through, is half darkly, full. <BR/><BR/>amen.Ian russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11106519805045337505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-89717976416270522582009-04-07T17:24:00.000+00:002009-04-07T17:24:00.000+00:00If by culture of celebrity we mean exposure to th...If by culture of celebrity we mean exposure to the public of an individual for the sole purpose of enhancing the media's bottom line and the individuals concerned are talentless and work shy, other than a street wise craftiness, then Goody was a classic example, a creature of the media, as the monster was a creature of Baron Frankenstein and in the grand order of things, pointless.<BR/>We are maltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02936465848907794425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-28825449273796792282009-04-07T16:01:00.000+00:002009-04-07T16:01:00.000+00:00Re: two words in ian's comment.sermon - but it was...Re: two words in ian's comment.<BR/><BR/><I>sermon</I> - but it wasn't long-winded and boring, surely. It was truth spoken with passion. Hmm, nice connection.<BR/><BR/><I>christ</I> - greek for messiah of course. But Keegan failed and even with Shearer they'll probably go down. <BR/><BR/>On the other hand "the Spirit of the Lord is upon me, for He has anointed me (anointed = messiah = christ) to Richard Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10005416556432927671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-80552054820575276672009-04-07T13:22:00.000+00:002009-04-07T13:22:00.000+00:00This is totally incoherent. Why are you so bad at ...This is totally incoherent. Why are you so bad at -thinking-?tonmelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-80034549875555021262009-04-07T09:47:00.000+00:002009-04-07T09:47:00.000+00:00christ, Mr. A, that's like a flippin' sermon! well...christ, Mr. A, that's like a flippin' sermon! well, I don't know anything about it but it didn't light up my day so I don't know what class has to do with it. it's like saying black people got rhythm, or big penises. maybe some do, and good luck with that.Ian russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11106519805045337505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-75807010293994720072009-04-07T08:11:00.000+00:002009-04-07T08:11:00.000+00:00This is a good observation. I sometimes use an of...This is a good observation. I sometimes use an office at a business centre for my work, and for a while I was taken aback by the lack of knowledge of the many of the secretaries there (it's more likely to be women in my experience) who didn't know who David Cameron is, or how US get presidents get elected (they thought Obama had already won lots of elections by November - they were right of Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-33255002112264336972009-04-07T08:03:00.000+00:002009-04-07T08:03:00.000+00:00My partner (an otherwise intelligent person), also...My partner (an otherwise intelligent person), also happens to spend plenty of time reading 'Grazia'. Apparently this magazine is considered one of the more 'high brow' of the ladies weekly magazines.willhttp://www.ruminantics.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-23122310874901278982009-04-07T07:45:00.000+00:002009-04-07T07:45:00.000+00:00I think the simple answer as to what is fueling th...I think the simple answer as to what is fueling the celebrity culture is "smaller networks"<BR/><BR/>Of course celebrity culture is far from new, the movie "The Duchess" explores that pretty well.<BR/><BR/>I live in a house that's over 120 years old, back then family networks were not just desirable but essential, they where your health service, the dole, your police, etc.thus we stuck together Seanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362169593902131947noreply@blogger.com