tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post7472550474811426009..comments2023-11-03T11:32:01.540+00:00Comments on Thought Experiments : The Blog: On Literary ToneBryan Appleyardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08276787058430388582noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-15525877256497536192008-07-04T09:59:00.000+00:002008-07-04T09:59:00.000+00:00You're just very literal, Duck. Irony is the not t...You're just very literal, Duck. Irony is the not the same as clunking sarcasm.<BR/><BR/>When dealing with limeys, assume it's ironic (but don't assume that just because the tone is ironic then we don't really mean it).Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-10083833896691288562008-07-04T02:34:00.000+00:002008-07-04T02:34:00.000+00:00Of course mistaking your subtle use of literary to...Of course mistaking your subtle use of literary tone for snobbish self regard is a sign of boorish philistinism, but I'm worried that some may read into your self regard with respect to said tonal sophistication as itself some kind of snobbery. Not that I would, of course. There is an even more subtle sub-tone to your piece, very easy to miss, but I can say with much gratification that after Duckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08852569465893563139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-86902377221018200762008-07-03T11:50:00.000+00:002008-07-03T11:50:00.000+00:00Reflecting on this post, and your unpacking of the...Reflecting on this post, and your unpacking of the peaches article and the ensuing discussion, i realised that I read a pretty high volume of blog material and there is <I>very</I> little of it that is written so well.<BR/><BR/>A suggestion: don't unpack it. Tone is a beautiful and fragile thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-48004482143449076762008-07-03T09:31:00.000+00:002008-07-03T09:31:00.000+00:00Tone did tone very well, Gordon's lousy at it. I h...Tone did tone very well, Gordon's lousy at it. I hate subtlety, bunch of poncing nancysmaltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02936465848907794425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-26836649088546868562008-07-03T01:34:00.000+00:002008-07-03T01:34:00.000+00:00Of course it's tone. That's all you do is tone. Y...Of course it's tone. That's all you do is tone. You're the toniest writer I know. You are the master of tone. I usually haven't the foggiest notion about what you're saying, but there is no mistaking the tone. The tone always comes through, and it is a wonder to behold.<BR/><BR/>Keep up the good work.Duckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08852569465893563139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-82076251987079917842008-07-02T21:43:00.000+00:002008-07-02T21:43:00.000+00:00I just noticed Worstall's title and the content of...I just noticed Worstall's title and the content of the threads and Mr Bennet's "For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn?" came to mind.<BR/><BR/>(I thought I would raise the tone with some literature.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-58957912163246422162008-07-02T21:33:00.000+00:002008-07-02T21:33:00.000+00:00It is just the kind of playfulness in the peaches ...It is just the kind of playfulness in the peaches post is what I like about this blog. luis enrique made an excellent point about emotional reactions blinding us to tone. And some people just don't get it I suppose.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps the conversational dimension of blogging makes it easier to push the envelope a bit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-84383336857153053862008-07-02T21:08:00.000+00:002008-07-02T21:08:00.000+00:00Well, when I had been blogging for about a day, I ...Well, when I had been blogging for about a day, I encountered Tim W's blog (probably because I had read a book of 2005 blog posts edited by him, and was curious about the medium). He had a (to my mind) asinine and illogical post about maternity leave from work. I wrote a (to my mind, again) reasonable comment. Well, forget it. It is a bit of a "peaching (ha ha) to the converted" situation. <BR/>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-34753571552752458352008-07-02T21:07:00.000+00:002008-07-02T21:07:00.000+00:00pardon?pardon?Richard Havershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309594787689405779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-55036804554298569672008-07-02T20:04:00.000+00:002008-07-02T20:04:00.000+00:00Even if you were to point out that it was irony to...Even if you were to point out that it was irony to these ranting uber sincere types, it would only increase their ire. Nothing worse than a mincing ironist, putting on airs and graces, thinks he's better than us, eh? Don't you know that life is serious? Also, and crucially: they enjoy the spite.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-42070059005388830782008-07-02T17:28:00.000+00:002008-07-02T17:28:00.000+00:00Clearly emoticons solve the tone problem for us me...Clearly emoticons solve the tone problem for us men of letters ;-)Nigehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13314891387515045404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-18947203908862830192008-07-02T17:11:00.000+00:002008-07-02T17:11:00.000+00:00It was the Ken High cinema bit wot did it, gov. Ha...It was the Ken High cinema bit wot did it, gov. Had you said a quarter of a mile east of Hammersmith tube nothing like the bile would have erupted. And you would still have the geog' of the shop sorted. On the tone thing, sometimes, only sometimes. Your grasp of the celtic bells is a bit flawed.Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442327549417743472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-63003833907223487362008-07-02T16:47:00.000+00:002008-07-02T16:47:00.000+00:00In my experience it's not that such people can't h...In my experience it's not that such people can't hear the tone, but that they deliberately ignore the subtlety and affect to mishear because they are waiting for an excuse to go for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-41445442898178968072008-07-02T16:45:00.000+00:002008-07-02T16:45:00.000+00:00Yeah, I liked "Hawksmoor" too. Half the old buildi...Yeah, I liked "Hawksmoor" too. Half the old buildings in Jolly Olde have that haunted feeling. And Susannah Clarke no doubt was influenced by the Ackroyd novel when she wrote about York Cathedral in "Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell." <BR/><BR/>Earnestness is what kills humor. I met far too many earnest folks in academe back in the day, which is probably why I now spend my working time in a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-55442874462271206872008-07-02T15:37:00.000+00:002008-07-02T15:37:00.000+00:00So, what's our fave Ackers novel then? I'll go for...So, what's our fave Ackers novel then? I'll go for HawksmoorGeorge Streethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14935308467947775528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-48822753510169562142008-07-02T15:33:00.000+00:002008-07-02T15:33:00.000+00:00Glad it was the comments, not the post, that went ...Glad it was the comments, not the post, that went haywire.<BR/><BR/>:-)Tim Worstallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13161727860817121071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-19826058314188530432008-07-02T15:32:00.000+00:002008-07-02T15:32:00.000+00:00I don't know how he is, Susan. I haven't seen him ...I don't know how he is, Susan. I haven't seen him in some years, which is a pity.Bryan Appleyardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08276787058430388582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-77577758495151011752008-07-02T15:28:00.000+00:002008-07-02T15:28:00.000+00:00Certainly better to fall about than to flail about...Certainly better to fall about than to flail about. How is old Peter Ackroyd? He was quite the thing when I was in grad school (that funky "biography" -- ironic "" again -- of Dickens was the shizz).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-31374314965823916382008-07-02T14:41:00.000+00:002008-07-02T14:41:00.000+00:00Ah well. Quite likely a "desperate snob" would hav...Ah well. Quite likely a "desperate snob" would have written <I>les pĂȘches d'Isfahan</I>. But you didn't and you aren't.<BR/><BR/>It struck me as a pleasant post about pleasure, and real pleasure is tinged with sadness. You were Adam, a comely Iranian fruit-seller was Eve (er, possibly allowing for some dramatic leeway), and then Sir Stuart Rose slithered into the picture. Yes the tone was playfulMarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06074816573442173758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-65062593603773362032008-07-02T14:14:00.000+00:002008-07-02T14:14:00.000+00:00i remember one of my readers asking why i hate chi...i remember one of my readers asking why i hate children after i wrote a 'humourous' post of advice to parents, most of which consisted of strongarm tactics, e.g. using chloroform to quell tantrums, that kind of thing. He really thought i was serious. <BR/><BR/>Of course, i was serious. But no one except me was supposed to know.<BR/><BR/>People like this are usually paranoid schizophrenics or Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-8292452807783490622008-07-02T14:09:00.000+00:002008-07-02T14:09:00.000+00:00I'm not sure it's a case of either being able to p...I'm not sure it's a case of either being able to pick up on tone, or being tone deaf. <BR/><BR/>Bryan, I assume you're pretty hot at picking up on tone, but don't you get it wrong from time to time? <BR/><BR/>I think it's especially easy to miss tone when the wrong-tone interpretation chimes with some of your prejudices or shoulder chips.Luis Enriquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09373244720653497312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-4107853727742782632008-07-02T13:39:00.000+00:002008-07-02T13:39:00.000+00:00Know exactly what you mean, chuck. Take me, for in...Know exactly what you mean, chuck. Take me, for instance: spent a good 10 minutes in a Faculty meeting once banging on about how much I love a good chip butty. Did they get my tone? Did they fuck as like! I was just getting to the point about how it's best to wedge chip bits in the caves created by the careful layering of the bigger chips before applying the s and v when all they wanted to crap George Streethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14935308467947775528noreply@blogger.com