tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post7816443266594463608..comments2023-11-03T11:32:01.540+00:00Comments on Thought Experiments : The Blog: More More Bloody BankersBryan Appleyardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08276787058430388582noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-33848808589795324292009-11-04T11:25:21.416+00:002009-11-04T11:25:21.416+00:00What is really puzzling to me is the point Alan Gr...What is really puzzling to me is the point Alan Greenspan made in his congressional evidence:<br />'how come these bankers with so much to lose themselves in shares & share options were so reckless'?Tom O'Chttp://torc.ie/groupthink-decision-making-tom-oconnor/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-10001904800428240452009-02-09T18:40:00.000+00:002009-02-09T18:40:00.000+00:00No, kynefski is being honest and that's the only w...No, kynefski is being honest and that's the only way to be if the deadly incentive structure that led to the crash is to be understood and fixed.<BR/><BR/>Two suggestions. First, concentrate not just on the bad examples but on <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BrNHTXMTIs" REL="nofollow">one real professional</A>, to remind ourselves what the word should mean. Note how desperately AmericansRichard Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10005416556432927671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-70988657823640149012009-02-09T10:58:00.000+00:002009-02-09T10:58:00.000+00:00I like that observation a little less, Kynefski.Go...I like that observation a little less, Kynefski.<BR/><BR/>Good captains do not pretend that they have x-ray vision for seeing clearly through fog when they're just guessing, and they do not awared themselves enormous bonuses for crashing into icebergs.Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-5645952103787004202009-02-09T01:59:00.000+00:002009-02-09T01:59:00.000+00:00Eh...I have to ask myself: If I found myself engag...Eh...I have to ask myself: If I found myself engaged in a remunerative enterprise where nobody seemed to understand what was going on, would I leave it on that account? I kind of doubt it, and so I find it difficult to portray bankers as evil agents.<BR/><BR/>I like this observation from <A HREF="http://american.com/archive/2009/our-epistemological-depression" REL="nofollow">Jerry Z. Muller</A>: Ken Pidcockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15236539087094493564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-65783344992447188272009-02-08T22:51:00.000+00:002009-02-08T22:51:00.000+00:00The punishment must be specific and relevant, as w...The punishment must be specific and relevant, as well as cruel and unusual.<BR/><BR/>Once the bankers are rounded up and stripped of their bonuses - rounding up is very important - Nassim Nicholas Taleb will ask each in turn whether he thinks he knows any more about predicting financial outcomes than any oik picked at random from a Wetherspoons.<BR/><BR/>The first banker to say 'Yes' should Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-41589922695312027072009-02-08T18:47:00.000+00:002009-02-08T18:47:00.000+00:00"Should" won't get you there. The bankers, or we, ..."Should" won't get you there. The bankers, or we, should see/do something or other - just an expression of personal irritation, widely shared but that's all.<BR/><BR/>This is a time for what do I know? and starting out from some bare facts. Just my 2 cents, but the press have let us down pretty badly on this one. Hardly anyone in the press saw it coming and even today hardly anyone is telling us Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06074816573442173758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-82416737294609997832009-02-08T17:25:00.000+00:002009-02-08T17:25:00.000+00:00Or, the bankers crimes have had some positive effe...Or, the bankers crimes have had <A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7877289.stm" REL="nofollow">some positive effects,</A>maltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02936465848907794425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-6888616934619780802009-02-08T17:16:00.000+00:002009-02-08T17:16:00.000+00:00Nah, that's too easy, Bryan. Americans are simply ...Nah, that's too easy, Bryan. Americans are simply paying the cost for their optimism (= systematic overestimation of their chances or skills) and for the idea that it's good enough to give education to the top while the remaining 90-95% of US population is seriously undereducated relative to what is possible and done in other countries such as Finland, Germany, Switzerland, etc. Sure, the real Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-50086753066130261122009-02-08T16:57:00.000+00:002009-02-08T16:57:00.000+00:00"In that light we can see more clearly what actual..."In that light we can see more clearly what actually happened and what must be done."<BR/><BR/>Public castration? It would be a kind of national catharsis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-63777718681993771612009-02-08T16:12:00.000+00:002009-02-08T16:12:00.000+00:00Professional = a person who's chosen means of empl...Professional = a person who's chosen means of employment requires a high degree of skill whether cerebral or manual. The learning of these skills is not a short term experience. Learning of these skills, although mainly by formal means within the education system can also be self taught.<BR/>Is frequently circumnavigated by the application of nepotism, especially in the entertainment industry. maltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02936465848907794425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-64430340349167082262009-02-08T15:44:00.000+00:002009-02-08T15:44:00.000+00:00Admittedly I am rather old, etc, but I thought the...Admittedly I am rather old, etc, but I thought the professions had something to do with education and training. If you had the relevant level of knowledge, you were counted as a professional - degree, perhaps, or qualification from an expert body. Or you could become a professional through experience without a qualification, out of respect for accumulated knowledge and imparted wisdom thereby (toAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-23607551883698580702009-02-08T15:24:00.000+00:002009-02-08T15:24:00.000+00:00Professional, probably the most misused word in re...Professional, probably the most misused word in recent times, as in "front line health service professionals", "front line teaching professionals", "front line emergency services professionals." Strange how they have become front line, these people.<BR/>AKA professional government employees.<BR/>Puzzled I am, the shorter the training period the more professional the job becomes.<BR/><BR/>Like themaltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02936465848907794425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-41965199795332359202009-02-08T14:47:00.000+00:002009-02-08T14:47:00.000+00:00BryanWhat on earth do you mean that 'the professio...Bryan<BR/><BR/>What on earth do you mean that 'the professions were invented to let the middle classes partake of the profits of business without partaking of the risks'?<BR/><BR/>How does the medical profession fit into this? And the criminal Bar?<BR/><BR/>It might be true that all professions are a conspiracy against the layman, (GB Shaw) but before recent governments they represented an Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-86865056514685884502009-02-08T14:45:00.000+00:002009-02-08T14:45:00.000+00:00I think Peter has it about right.I think Peter has it about right.Frank Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410473158808750903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-54289133497322638822009-02-08T13:44:00.000+00:002009-02-08T13:44:00.000+00:00Here is the problem. Just as the Allies discovere...Here is the problem. Just as the Allies discovered they couldn't run Germany or Iraq without the Nazis and the Ba'athists, so we can't do without the bankers unless we want to go back to the 30's or even the Middle Ages. OTOH, they have betrayed out trust outrageously and profited from gambling with our futures. So the only solution is to vent our rage by marching a dozen of them summarily to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-60094296961655899952009-02-08T12:23:00.000+00:002009-02-08T12:23:00.000+00:00Yes, passer by is right, the bankers will get the ...Yes, passer by is right, the bankers will get the money and the bonuses. The rest of us will suffer with pay cuts, job losses, inability to live anywhere decent, etc.<BR/>I fell out with my husband last night about the bonuses - we donn't usually speak very much but circumstances made it necessary last night (we had to leave the house as our daughter was having an 18th birthday party). He said Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-22521927762690183772009-02-08T10:49:00.000+00:002009-02-08T10:49:00.000+00:00btw on the main point of the post.Bad news I am af...btw on the main point of the post.<BR/><BR/>Bad news I am afraid the bankers will get the money. <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://timworstall.com/2009/02/07/polly-polly-4/" REL="nofollow">Tiger tim has a good post on the issue here</A><BR/><BR/>You can read between the lines when the politicos think about having a go at bankers, they take the foot of the pedals just before they go too far, as they know Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-78273226273066026322009-02-08T10:37:00.000+00:002009-02-08T10:37:00.000+00:00...and lets not forget a massive serge in New mone......and lets not forget a massive serge in New money from SE Asia taking the place of us having to bother saving up for anything.<BR/><BR/>add to that the fractional reserve banking system that allowed Banks and bankers to create even more money by issuing credit.<BR/><BR/>add to that Mercantilist China distorting it currency to keep its exports cheap<BR/><BR/>add to that the resulting distortion Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-40258198171865421122009-02-08T09:03:00.000+00:002009-02-08T09:03:00.000+00:00It has been a con job of the greatest magnitude ev...It has been a con job of the greatest magnitude ever. False profits, from false accounting, have been used to justify huge remuneration. Don't forget the ratings agencies and auditors who were complicit in this. We have been mesmerised by money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com