tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post7889123085218078496..comments2023-11-03T11:32:01.540+00:00Comments on Thought Experiments : The Blog: For PZ Myers 3: Ross and PhoebeBryan Appleyardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08276787058430388582noreply@blogger.comBlogger84125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-23439212120396949742010-01-02T00:57:08.064+00:002010-01-02T00:57:08.064+00:00This thread is amazing. Some comments bring up th...This thread is amazing. Some comments bring up the fundamental problem here: none of these things are defined. Rus, what does it mean for something to be spiritual? It's been asked already, but not answered. If you don't believe in physical reality, I challenge you to define spirituality. Can you do it without invoking physical reality? If there is no logically consistent definitionAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05747230488379314958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-19937788071934044562009-12-05T01:04:58.706+00:002009-12-05T01:04:58.706+00:00Darwinism is the most persistent hoax in the histo...Darwinism is the most persistent hoax in the history of science. It has persisted for one reason only. It is because the atheism which enveloped Western culture in the guise of The Enlightenment will not, indeed cannot abide the notion that phylogeny might have been a guided process. Darwinism's major surviving champions, Richard Dawkwins and his New World crony Paul Zachary Myers, both John A. Davisonhttp://jadavison.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-37384833134295484252009-12-05T00:15:16.340+00:002009-12-05T00:15:16.340+00:00You seem quite crazy.You seem quite crazy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-51337377507456274052009-12-01T18:39:53.430+00:002009-12-01T18:39:53.430+00:00Some evolutionists are like that too, I've not...Some evolutionists are like that too, I've noticed.Rus Bowdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08412920154921512774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-19486255229421672692009-12-01T17:13:40.407+00:002009-12-01T17:13:40.407+00:00This is a good example of the typically deceitful ...This is a good example of the typically deceitful rhetoric of a creationist, making arguments based on assuming false premises.<br /><br />1. Evolution is not "treating science as an ideology". Evolution <b><i>is</i></b> science.<br /><br />2. This sentence has no meaning: "Science...is a method, not a posture towards the world."<br /><br />3. People who promote pseudoscience Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12810054747606600334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-11704604133332955972009-12-01T06:59:08.478+00:002009-12-01T06:59:08.478+00:00Let's see: Ross hurt Phoebe's feelings so...Let's see: Ross hurt Phoebe's feelings so it's okay for her to believe something that is really dumb.<br /><br />PZ Myers hurt Bryan Appleyard's feelings. and Bryan is like Phoebe.<br /><br />It's better to be a jerk and right than to defend nonsense under the guise of not hurting people's feelings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-71362201515540124912009-12-01T01:15:11.532+00:002009-12-01T01:15:11.532+00:00Peter Burnet said... "Phoebe from Friends? Da...Peter Burnet said... "Phoebe from Friends? Dammit, Bryan, we spend days defending your honour in the face of your dicey reference to the controversial Behe and now you expect us to champion the cause of Phoebe? What are we supposed to say, that underneath she is in touch with a richer atavistic wisdom? OK, man, I'm loyal as always, but I want danger pay."<br /><br />No, man. You&#Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-28953984383912746012009-12-01T00:25:40.538+00:002009-12-01T00:25:40.538+00:00Let's be careful here not to conflate evolutio...Let's be careful here not to conflate evolutionary biology with PZ Myers. <br /><br />Not all scientists react with bile, even in the face of what can be extraordinarily frustrating intrusions by those attempting to derail the scientific method. And, to be sure, intelligent design and its component parts are precisely <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy" rel="nofollow" rel="Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-16585731906703836062009-11-30T23:40:06.708+00:002009-11-30T23:40:06.708+00:00Here's how Intelligent Design works:
http://w...Here's how Intelligent Design works:<br /><br />http://www.antievolution.org/features/wedge.htmlSteven Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800114865214533118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-92104426696769631982009-11-30T23:13:16.385+00:002009-11-30T23:13:16.385+00:00"Should we now assume, that our consciousness..."Should we now assume, that our consciousnesses are created from the physical world. What is the mechanism for this?"<br /><br />That's a good question. Of course, it's also potentially a bad question: we don't really even know what consciousness is in the first place.<br /><br />But the key point here is not that while science has no final answer to the question at the Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16041394892925909244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-90485135555830986512009-11-30T21:45:47.059+00:002009-11-30T21:45:47.059+00:00"Please note that at the end of this post P.Z..."Please note that at the end of this post P.Z.Myers will still be a jerk and I still won't be,"<br /><br />Grow up.Philnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-18442500893360091512009-11-30T19:30:34.307+00:002009-11-30T19:30:34.307+00:00It seems to me that your approach to writing and i...It seems to me that your approach to writing and indeed your "writing", suffers from a mix of poor preparation and lackadaisical thought processes.<br /><br />So it goes without saying, that one so handicapped, should never even approach subjects of a scientific nature.<br /><br />The faulty rationale that prevented you from coming to this conclusion yourself, is only an indictment.Skavarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09652942909023400336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-61967229919810138752009-11-30T19:23:42.941+00:002009-11-30T19:23:42.941+00:00It's obvious that you and your cheerleading co...It's obvious that you and your cheerleading commenters neither understand science or logic.<br /><br />As to Doctor Myers - Still one of the best rational atheist bloggers out there. <br /><br />And you - just pitiable without a shred of sense.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01168961345928357006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-38990554383075095832009-11-30T18:23:38.657+00:002009-11-30T18:23:38.657+00:00Reached the end of this post, and you're still...Reached the end of this post, and you're still a jerk...and probably always will be. Live with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-56971615484345611512009-11-30T18:18:44.238+00:002009-11-30T18:18:44.238+00:00When we begin our childhood inquiry into whether t...When we begin our childhood inquiry into whether the physical world parallels our experiences, and then how much this can be so in our adolescences, we are on the right track. When we lose ourselves in the physical world as adults, we are not.<br /><br />Should we now assume, that our consciousnesses are created from the physical world. What is the mechanism for this? Do a group of highly trainedRus Bowdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08412920154921512774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-61328959289711319022009-11-30T16:54:59.155+00:002009-11-30T16:54:59.155+00:00"The physical world may not exist. The spirit..."The physical world may not exist. The spiritual world must."<br /><br />This assumes a rather incredible amount. By what basis can you possibly assert that our subjective experience is "spiritual" with all the many attached connotations of that word? We can indeed agree that we have a subjective experience of what (at least within that subjective experience) seems to be a Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16041394892925909244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-53517385884363956322009-11-30T16:47:05.487+00:002009-11-30T16:47:05.487+00:00"Please note that at the end of this post P.Z..."Please note that at the end of this post P.Z.Myers will still be a jerk and I still won't be"<br /><br />What are you, 12?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-2269774266414634892009-11-30T16:40:17.684+00:002009-11-30T16:40:17.684+00:00Mr Appleyard I saw the friends episode at the time...Mr Appleyard I saw the friends episode at the time and this was the stupidest moment of the series except maybe the Rachel-Joey thing.<br />If I recall correctly Ross was astonished that Phoebe didnt believe in evolution and Phoebe challenged him by saying "could there be a tiny possibility that evolution is wrong and Ross said yes.Phoebe triumphs by calling Rosses faith in evolution weak Et in Arcadia egohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08346225510951975551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-41755305462997429322009-11-30T13:19:18.301+00:002009-11-30T13:19:18.301+00:00You may be wrong about the not being a jerk part. ...You may be wrong about the not being a jerk part. One must make allowances for reasonable doubt.Zenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09058127284297728552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-20828140733793863912009-11-30T12:37:50.592+00:002009-11-30T12:37:50.592+00:00Let's go back to point A. The physical world m...Let's go back to point A. The physical world may not exist. The spiritual world must. We know this by simple reflection, unless we are zombies or machines. The evidence that people seem to ask for is physical, lab-type evidence. That's not going to happen.<br /><br />I know of no mystics who have reported this teapot phenomenon.Rus Bowdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08412920154921512774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-8323631809423913672009-11-30T10:45:22.862+00:002009-11-30T10:45:22.862+00:00This criticism (of science as intolerant of dissen...This criticism (of science as intolerant of dissent) almost invariably comes from those who (like Appleyard) have previously shown themselves to be rather lacking both in scientific training and understanding (a trait that's particularly regrettable in science writers).<br /><br />The response has been given so often and so clearly that I fear Appleyard must be willfully ignoring it: sciencele_sacrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15430520597001930600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-11952031917390928762009-11-30T09:15:40.706+00:002009-11-30T09:15:40.706+00:00Hi Django.
I dunno either. That's one of the...Hi Django. <br /><br />I dunno either. That's one of the problems associated with the metaphysical; you can only use references to physical objects in order to describe it.<br /><br />Rus, for example (& I hope i'm not misrepresenting him here) seems to regard our physical selves as being just part of a larger thing which exists both in & out of the sensible world. From this trahernehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03554983022190670978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-42993078413726006712009-11-30T03:53:47.135+00:002009-11-30T03:53:47.135+00:00This is balderdash. "Science" is an inte...This is balderdash. "Science" is an intellectual endeavor, the RESULTS of which enhance our understanding of the world. Science is not PZ Myers. You may object to the way PZ projects his opinion on his blog, but I'd bet your salary that the science he does in his lab honors the word.<br /><br />If you think science is an ideology, than you don't understand human progress. The Chasmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-40971475338253539042009-11-30T00:33:29.703+00:002009-11-30T00:33:29.703+00:00HI folks,
I'm a newbie here, and an atheist, ...HI folks,<br /><br />I'm a newbie here, and an atheist, but I'm having the same problems here that I have with most such discussions. WTF is "spiritual"? I have no idea what that means, but you guys seem to know. Tell me.<br /><br />But don't appeal to other ill- (or un-) defined terms. I won't know what you mean by "soul" or "god" or most other Django Boldthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08301478994479645421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23400750.post-26687141450719063452009-11-29T23:15:00.408+00:002009-11-29T23:15:00.408+00:00Hello Bryan,
on the ID stuff, you've either mi...Hello Bryan,<br />on the ID stuff, you've either misunderstood or ignored the position of most scientists (i'm sure including myers). that is, ID is a possibility. design by another (alien) civilization is far more probable than a deity b/c we know that advanced intelligence/civilization has developed before (us). On the contrary, there is no suggestion for ID by deity. So, yes, ID by Guy Benjamin Brookshirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11382080350608354218noreply@blogger.com